[Ldsoss] Scout Tracking

Fri Jul 7 11:13:41 EDT 2006

I agree Charles, but with one caveat.  I'm no dictator on this issue,
however, my personal recommendation on any OSS software to be created is to
be sure you all are releasing early, and releasing often.  An agile
perspective to OSS development I feel would go a long way with many OSS
projects.  Set some short project goals with short timelines (less than a
month), and work to release that snippet of the project within that month.
This will keep the project from looming on forever, and will get the public
excited about receiving more in the future.  Think about a few features at a
time, keep it organized in components so this is possible, and release just
a few features at a time, and your project will be a huge success.

In light of this project, by taking the above method, it doesn't matter if
it's using MySQL, Postgres, PHP, or Apache - so long as those are just
components of the project, they can be replaced in a Windows version down
the road.  What matters most is that they are but components of the project
and not so finely integrated that they can't be replaced in some other
environment.  Now, that's just my $.02.

That said, I completely agree - none of this should discourage anyone from
pushing forward on this project.  I am extremely happy to finally see major
projects being organized and executed like this.  Charles said it to me
earlier and I don't think I fully understood the breadth of it at the time,
but this group is truly moderating itself and evolving over time into what
we originally had envisioned, and it hasn't even taken much push from
Charles and I (and others involved in the group's organization) in doing
so.  Keep up the good work guys!

Jesse

On 7/7/06, Charles Fry <ldsoss at frogcircus.org> wrote:
>
> But why does any of this matter, Steven? I don't see why so many get so
> blocked up at the prospect of a project that doesn't conform to their
> personal preferences. Even if you are right (which is irrelevant for
> this argument), what will it hurt for this project to be pushed to
> completion? That would certainly be better than the current state where
> all that has happened is talk about perfect solutions. If someone wants
> a Windows app, they should go write one. If they want a web app, they
> should go write one. One doesn't preclude the other. In the end they
> might even find ways to get along. If anyone has sufficient desire and
> energy to create it, that is already justification enough to move
> forward.
>
> And who doesn't benefit from some healthy competition? We already have
> both PAF and PhpGedView; Linux, BSD, and Hurd; Thunderbird, Evolution,
> and SquirrelMail; mutt and pine; vi and emacs (cringe); Eclipse and
> NetBeans. The list goes on and on and on.
>
> I welcome diversity in LDS software. I think we need a lot more of it,
> even if it isn't perfect. Even if it doesn't meet everyone's needs. With
> time some projects may become more dominant than others, some may
> attract more developers, and some may become officially sanctioned by
> the Church. But while we wait to see what happens, we should be
> littering the web with projects, rather than waiting for the millennium
> before we finally start our first one.
>
> Charles
>
> -----Original Message-----
> > From: "Steven H. McCown" <smccown at earthlink.net>
> > Subject: RE: [Ldsoss] Scout Tracking
> > Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2006 08:05:43 -0600
> > To: 'LDS Open Source Software' <ldsoss at lists.ldsoss.org>
> > Reply-To: smccown at earthlink.net,
> >       LDS Open Source Software <ldsoss at lists.ldsoss.org>
> >
> > Your code (the snippet that I saw) looks fine, your tools sound, but you
> > seem to not be concerned with marketing / user aspects.
> >
> > Most that use Linux will have MySQL, Postgres, PHP, and
> Apache.  However,
> > that is still less than 10% of the home user market (real computer geeks
> > aside).  While the server market has a much higher Linux adoption rate,
> the
> > home PC market does not.  Very few church buildings do not run Linux as
> they
> > need to run MIS and such.  Very few buildings have open internet
> > connections, as well.
> >
> > So who is your customer?  If you're just doing this for your own
> purposes or
> > for a few other interested people, then you're on the right track.
> >
> > If you want this to be adopted as a widely-used program for Scouting,
> then
> > you've put up some technological barriers that will preclude interested
> > users from participating.
> >
> > The most successful and widely used apps (by home users) are Windows
> apps
> > with an easy installation process.  Also, standalone executable apps are
> > predominant in this world.  Java is kind of borderline, but the JRE can
> be
> > insulated from the user.  Users have chosen compiled .exe's, because
> they
> > don't want to maintain an interpretive environment -- unless it's really
> > insulated and automatically updated.  Users nearly always choose simple
> over
> > better -- think WinZip over 7-Zip (which I like, btw).
> >
> > The thread describing Windows users as somewhat half-witted was
> abrasive,
> > but grounded in reality.  Windows users just their apps to work -- they
> > don't want to 'fiddle with it'.  They don't care what language or tech
> is
> > used to create an app, rather they just want to install it and forget
> about
> > it and they don't want to have to maintain other tools like Perl or
> Python.
> > The JRE seems to have crossed that barrier for other reasons.
> >
> > ***I am not criticizing technology or anyone's preference.***
> >
> > I'm only criticizing a bit so that you don't get done and have everyone
> > still having to pay for Scout tracking software, because they wanted a
> > familiar and simple platform/environment.
> >
> > The question that I'm driving at is whether you're architecting towards
> a
> > technological solution that you prefer (or that you consider better) or
> a
> > user-required solution that end users are likely to use .....?
> >
> > Steve
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: ldsoss-bounces at lists.ldsoss.org
> > [mailto:ldsoss-bounces at lists.ldsoss.org] On Behalf Of Oscar Schultz
> > Sent: Thursday, July 06, 2006 11:03 PM
> > To: LDS Open Source Software
> > Subject: Re: [Ldsoss] Scout Tracking
> >
> > ...
> > My plan is to use either MySQL or PostGRES, php, apache, and linux with
> a
> > web interface.
> > ...
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Ldsoss mailing list
> > Ldsoss at lists.ldsoss.org
> > http://lists.ldsoss.org/mailman/listinfo/ldsoss
>
> --
> The queen
> Of hearts
> Now loves the knave
> The king
> Ran out of
> Burma-Shave
> http://burma-shave.org/jingles/1939/the_queen
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